Garmin Upload - Training Effect & Benefit does not work

[DanMan204]

Hi,

when I try to upload a FIT file to that I edited in GOTOES to GARMIN CONNECT, all values are accepted in GARMIN CONNECT except the following:
- Anaerob Training Effect
- Aerob Training Effect
- Exercise Load / Benefit

I already checked that my Garmin Device (FR945), Serial Number and Software Version (13.00) are included, which is the case.
I also do see these values and my watch in GARMIN CONNECT, but it still does not take over the 3 values from GOTOES.
Instead of that, it keeps the original values.

I noticed that the Software Sersion in the GOTOES FIT file is always set to 13.01 instead of 13.00.
So if I put in Software Version 13.00 / 12.00 / 11.00 / ... GOTOES always sets it to 13.01 / 12.01 / 11.01 / ... in the FIT File.
Could this be the reason why the values for training effort etc. are not accepted by GARMIN CONNECT?

Thanks and best regards,
D.

[fulmar2]

The current solution to this problem is indicated below. I will persevere the historical posts as well so you can see how we came to this resolution. I will update the post if we figure out a setting in Garmin Connect that disables this auto-correction... or if Garmin agrees that this is a "bug" that needs to be fixed.

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SOLUTION:
Guys - I have verified that this:

Garmin will override FIT Training Load / TrainingEffect / Benefit if you include heart rate. Basically, Garmin is re-calculating these factors from the heart rate and IGNORING the values that GOTOES puts into the fields. If you exclude heart rate, Garmin will accept the values from GOTOES.

Another user found that if they omit the Garmin Device (or maybe the serial number) Garmin also respects the GOTOES data and does not perform the recalculation.

The best way to get this fixed is to ask Garmin Connect to stop overriding the data. You can do that by using this link:

https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?productID=73207&tab=topics

Select “Chat” or “Call” and let Garmin know that they should not recalculate Training Load / TrainingEffect / Benefit from heart rate unless those values are absent. Please suggest the following:

• Option 1:
  User can toggle true that they want Garmin Connect to recalculate their Aerobic and Anaerobic Training Effect by using Heart Rate.
• Option 2:
  User can toggle true that they want Garmin Connect to use the Aerobic and Anaerobic Training Effect embedded in their file and NOT do any overrides using heart rate.

What if you still think this is a GOTOES bug?

It is natural to be suspicious, so GOTOES offers a diagnostic tool that spits out all of the raw data contained inside of your file. You can upload any FIT file to this site:

https://gotoes.org/gotoes/strava/conver ... to_csv.php

Be sure to check the "Messy Dump" option so you get a diagnostics file:

First, check the "Messy Dump" box, then click "Upload". After the file is uploaded, download the text file containing all of the raw data from your FIT file.

After you download the diagnostics TXT file, open it with the text editor on your computer and search for these two fields:

Code: Select all

total_training_effect
total_anaerobic_training_effect

The number you are looking for is the number just before the parenthesis (or you could take the number in the parenthesis and divide by 10).

Notice how in this example, the values found in the diagnostics file do match what is shown on Garmin Connect. You can test this with your GOTOES exports, and you will see that while the values in the GOTOES file are correct, Garmin might "disrespect" those values and re-calculate your training_effect based on your heart rate.

You should notice that in your original file, and in the GOTOES export, the values for this field are correct.



Thanks!
Brian

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Below begins the historical conversation:

Hi - You're the 2nd person who mentioned this. The issue MAY be related to the software version.. but I think that the serial number and selection of a Garmin Device are more important. The last several files I tested for people DID work with these 3 features, but I haven't tested on Garmin Connect for over a month now, and they may have changed something. Perhaps you can upload Screen Shots of GOTOES and Garmin Connect, as well as some FIT files for me to test. You can also message me using the contact form if you don't want to address this issue publicly.

[DanMan204]

Hi,

thanks for your qucik reply!
Attached you will find some screenshots and the 2 fit-files (one original from Garmin and the one editetd with Gotoes).
As you will see, I´m able to upload the edited fit-file, but the Training effect fields are not overtaken (but weirdly they changed anyhow).
The issue with the software version seems to be fixed already.

Thanksa and best regards,
Daniel

[fulmar2]

I cannot seem to replicate this issue.

First, I took your GOTOES and original files and uploaded them to https://www.fitfileviewer.com. I could see that the values from your screenshots were correctly placed in the correct fields.

Correct Placement of Aerobic Training Effect and Anaerobic Training Effect. Note that in the FIT spec, Aerobic Training Effect is called "total training effect."

Next, I took your GOTOES file that you uploaded to this forum, and uploaded it to my test Garmin Account. The values from the file were displayed correctly in Garmin Connect. Please note that I had trouble signing in to Garmin Connect for a while this morning; their site seems to have been down for a while. Maybe they were working on this issue? Regardless, given that we can clearly see the correctness of the GOTOES file in fitfileviewer, I surmise that this issue is on Garmin's end, not GOTOES. Please contact Garmin if this issue persists with your Garmin Account. Also, if they provide you with some information about what is going on, please report back here, as I would like to know. Thanks!

This is what I see when I upload your GOTOES file to my Garmin Test Account.

[DanMan204]

Hi,

I also tested the files now with a another newly created test account in Garmin Connect. Like in your case it did work there.
But with my own real Garmin Connect account the upload of the training effect fields does still not work.
Same problem if I try with other edited training files: It does work in the test account but not in my real account. Very weird.

I will try to contact Garmin regarding this issue, I have no idea why this happens.

Thanks and best regards,
D.

[DanMan204]

Hi,

short update:
Today I noticed that the upload of edited training effect & benefit values is only working if I delete the heartrate data out of the fit file via Gotoes.
If I upload the same fit file WITH heartrate the edited training effect & benefit values are not uploaded to Garmin Connect, instead the old ones or completey new ones are shown in Garmin Connect.

Seems like there is some calculation done during upload, at least in my Garmin Connect account.
In the test account everything works well with or without heartrate in the fit file.

Just wanted to share this with you

Best, D.

[fulmar2]

Thanks. Great detective work! That is good information.

So, my first thought as a workaround is this:
Garmin allows “developer data,” which is a place for developers to add data fields of any type. In theory, one could add a “heart rate” DD field, transfer the real heart rate values from the native field into the DD field.

The above would solve your problem, and even show up on Garmin Connect. But it would have to be an “opt in” because it would confuse everyone else!

It would take a while to code this in, so maybe we can brainstorm a better workaround… and also, maybe you can find out from Garmin if there is a way to change this setting in your account.

[Hegger]

Hey,

it's exactly the same for me. After import it shows random training effects but if I exclude heart rate it works. In my case it's a Fenix 7 and the software version in gotoes and on my watch are the same. Hope somebody finds an answer.

Cheers,
Thomas

[fulmar2]

Hegger - would you mind writing to Garmin as well? I think other people have experienced this too. I'd like to exculpate GOTOES... or figure out the proper way to include the information. If you use fitfileviewer, you can see that the information is in the correct location.

It may be that Training Effect is based on your Heart Rate (on the GPS as well as in Garmin Connect). Then, when you upload a file with Heart Rate, Garmin (by default) re-calculates the Training Effect based on the supplied Heart Rate and by comparing it with your training zones (the values that you specify in your Garmin Connect Profile). Normally, when you do an activity, the heart rate data and the Training Effect will match. If you go and override the Training Effect, however, maybe Garmin goes back and re-overrides it when you upload to GC.

If that is the case, then Training Effect is based on Heart Rate data, and it would be quite difficult for me to override unless Garmin decides to stop overriding themselves. I don't think I could write an algorithm to try and replicate their training effect values; it would have to change all of your heart rate values in order to work.

The only other solution (which is also kind of janky) would be to migrate the Heart Rate data into the developer_data field. If I did that, your file could be absent "native heart rate"... but you could still see the graph because it's in a field that Garmin wouldn't use for overriding training effect.

All this is pure speculation at this point, but if people reach out to Garmin to ask what is going on, I would definitely appreciate knowing in case I can fix this.

[Hegger]

Hi, thanks for your reply. I tried to reach out to them via chat. They just sent me a link to the third party connection site and then "unexpectedly" closed the chat. I think it is hard to reach them in general and specific a person who is able to help with that issue. I think i will just stick with the wrong calculation. Maybe its more accurate as it takes the power data into account while importing.

[Hegger]

Hi,

was there a change to the system? Up to some weeks ago it worked to get the Training Effect data in combined files. Now I did the combination as usual but in Garmin Connect the training effect is not showing in the activity anymore.

Also stamina and intensity minutes are missing in the combined file.

I attached the overviews like I see them in Garmin Connect.

Thanks,
Thomas

[fulmar2]

Hegger -

I have changed a lot on GOTOES in the last few weeks, but have not touched the Training Effect calculation. Just to be sure, though, I created an 8 second duration activity and inserted "VO2 Max" for one... and "Threshold" for the other. Both came out as expected with GOTOES being able to override the data.

If you ever have any doubt about GOTOES inserting fields, you can either download the raw data from GOTOES (bottom right, near the big blue button)... or better yet, you can upload your GOTOES export to "FitfileViewer". This is a tool which will verify the presence (or absence) of data fields in a raw form. It seems to me that for some Garmin accounts, they are overriding the Training Effect data that is embedded in the FIT file... and instead, they are re-calculating the Training Effect based on the heart rate from the activity.

I'm not sure how to change this setting, as my 2 Garmin accounts (my personal account and my test account) do not do this override. My guess is that it has to either do with a setting in your Garmin Account... or perhaps even your geography - maybe certain accounts are treated differently depending on where you live? Just guesses to explore.

[Hegger]

Thanks for your fast reply.

I opened a second account with the same result. It doesnt import stamina, training effect etc. I found in the fit file viewer that my clock a fenix 7 is not inserted in the device info fields. Maybe this is the culprit. In a activity from April 28th, that included the training effect data, my watch is showing in the acitivity but not in the one I combined an uploaded today.

What can I do to include my watch correctly in the combined file? After importing the two files the watch is showing as well as the serial number and the software version.

[Hegger]

Upadte:

I now have to change the "GPS Type in Output File:" to my watch manually. Then at least trainings effect data are showing again in Garmin Connect (although with the slighty different calculation after upload). Up the last time I used GOTOES end of April, it automatically took my watch as "GPS Type in Output File:" and not my indoor bike. Now I have to adjust this before combining the files.

[fulmar2]

@Hegger - I just changed the ranking system for the auto-selection of GPS devices. The tool already weighed in the presence of serial number, software version, and whether or not it is Zwift (with preference towards Zwift in the export) when deciding which GPS type to put in the export. Now, the name "Garmin" also weighs in - with a preference towards auto-selecting Garmin as the export device. I feel this is a safe choice because Garmin Connect is very picky about having a Garmin Device as the device type. Meanwhile, other platforms do not seem to care. This makes Garmin the safest choice if there is more than one option. Could you please test this for me and/or provide a files where I can test the auto-select feature? Thanks!

[fulmar2]

Guys - I have verified that this: Garmin will override FIT Training Load / TrainingEffect / Benefit if you include heart rate. Basically, Garmin is re-calculating these factors from the heart rate and IGNORING the values that GOTOES puts into the fields.

The best way to get this fixed is to ask Garmin Connect to stop overriding the data. You can do that by using this link:

https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?produ ... tab=topics

Select “Chat” or “Call” and let Garmin know that they should not recalculate Training Load / TrainingEffect / Benefit from heart rate unless those values are absent.


Temporary work-around:

If you omit the heart rate data, Garmin Connect will be forced to use the training_effect embedded in the file, and will NOT recalculate your training_effect.

Thanks!
Brian

[GotoesUser]

Strange... because it has always worked for me like this, until today! But I will follow your recommendations.

Thank you very much!

[fulmar2]

Yes, yes! Either Garmin Connect is slowly releasing this “feature” to the public… or maybe there is a setting that we can change in our accounts? I do not know.

I will tell you this:
People in Europe noticed it first. I could not replicate the issue with either of my two USA based accounts. I haven’t looked at the problem since May, but I could not replicate the issue in May either. Now, today, I can replicate the issue… so my account is also ignoring the TE/TL/BE starting recently. I have two accounts - a “real” account and a “test” account. Check this out: In my “real” account, Garmin does the override. In my “test” account, Garmin does NOT do the override. So maybe it has something to do with the frequency of use… or an accumulation of heart rate data? or maybe Garmin recalculates if you submit from your non-primary tracking device? In my test account, I am loading files from people around the world. If you can figure out how to prevent Garmin from automatically recalculating, you’d be a hero to many! If you want to prove this to yourself, make a "test" Garmin Connect account, and upload a file from GOTOES. You will see that TE/TL/BE are all exactly the same values you specify in GOTOES.

[fulmar2]

Update Dec 4, 2024:
Hi guys - today a user wrote to me and said that if he omits the Garmin Device name, Garmin will not re-calculate the two training_effect values. Leaving out the Garmin device name would be better than leaving out the heart rate stream. If you do this, though, your activity will not count towards any Garmin Challenges. I highly encourage you to write to Garmin and ask them for the OPTION to have Garmin Connect re-calculate Training_Effect based on Heart Rate. In other words, give users a choice to either use the Training_Effect values in the file OR re-calculate based on heart rate.

As an aside, you might also be able to leave out the Garmin Serial Number. I have not tested this myself. If you leave out the Garmin Serial Number, again, your activity will not count towards any Garmin Challenges. Please note that I get questions about this 3x per week, so if everyone writes to Garmin, hopefully we can get this resolved.